Comments on: Mythbusting ERP-PLM Integration http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=mythbusting-erp-plm-integration Clarity on software for innovation, product development, engineering, and manufacturing Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:17:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jim Brown http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/comment-page-1/#comment-584 Jim Brown Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:28:49 +0000 http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/?p=628#comment-584 Jeff, You bring up an excellent point about global sourcing. Sourcing is an area that has elements of planning and product definition (tied to PLM) and purchasing execution (tied to ERP). I have seen some overlap between PLM systems and global sourcing which are very interesting. I think we spoke some time back when I was with Aberdeen Group, I believe you work with consumer goods/apparel companies. This is definately the case in apparel, given the rapid timelines and sourcing involvement in developing products. Best, Jim Jeff,
You bring up an excellent point about global sourcing. Sourcing is an area that has elements of planning and product definition (tied to PLM) and purchasing execution (tied to ERP). I have seen some overlap between PLM systems and global sourcing which are very interesting.
I think we spoke some time back when I was with Aberdeen Group, I believe you work with consumer goods/apparel companies. This is definately the case in apparel, given the rapid timelines and sourcing involvement in developing products.
Best,
Jim

]]> By: Jeff Ketner http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/comment-page-1/#comment-582 Jeff Ketner Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:09:41 +0000 http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/?p=628#comment-582 "PLM helps drive product innovation, ERP helps execute the business of manufacturing. PLM’s primary role is not managing innovation, it is helping companies innovate, develop new products, and engineer them more effectively." -- I couldn't agree more. Although the functions do go together, they serve inherently different purposes. Usually, our clients feel that they need to determine in which area they need to invest first - ERP or PLM (and it's many times PLM first). However, some clients go for the whole package, from a to b: PLM, global sourcing AND ERP, because they feel that they need improvement in everything from product innovation and design to a more efficiently executed manufacturing system - and that requires an integrated ERP and PLM system. “PLM helps drive product innovation, ERP helps execute the business of manufacturing. PLM’s primary role is not managing innovation, it is helping companies innovate, develop new products, and engineer them more effectively.” — I couldn’t agree more. Although the functions do go together, they serve inherently different purposes.

Usually, our clients feel that they need to determine in which area they need to invest first – ERP or PLM (and it’s many times PLM first). However, some clients go for the whole package, from a to b: PLM, global sourcing AND ERP, because they feel that they need improvement in everything from product innovation and design to a more efficiently executed manufacturing system – and that requires an integrated ERP and PLM system.

]]> By: Jim Brown http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/comment-page-1/#comment-553 Jim Brown Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:27:27 +0000 http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/?p=628#comment-553 Oleg, Thank you for passing the link to Joe's post along. I have some reaction to it, but it appears you need to be an IDC client to comment (or maybe I was missing something). Also, I would like to point people to your post "Innovation On the PLM-ERP Edge" http://plmtwine.com/2010/01/30/innovation-on-the-plm-erp-edge/. Other than having a different view on the history of ERP (which isn't very relevant to this discussion, so I will save it for a discussion over a drink at a conference) I mostly agree. Thanks for the debate. Oleg,
Thank you for passing the link to Joe’s post along. I have some reaction to it, but it appears you need to be an IDC client to comment (or maybe I was missing something).

Also, I would like to point people to your post “Innovation On the PLM-ERP Edge” http://plmtwine.com/2010/01/30/innovation-on-the-plm-erp-edge/. Other than having a different view on the history of ERP (which isn’t very relevant to this discussion, so I will save it for a discussion over a drink at a conference) I mostly agree.

Thanks for the debate.

]]> By: Jim Brown http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/comment-page-1/#comment-552 Jim Brown Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:13:18 +0000 http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/?p=628#comment-552 Eldad, Thank you. Just to be clear, I am not saying that ERP companies can't bring PLM to market. I believe they could. The question is are they motivated to build as deep and functional of a system as a best-of-breed vendor is? Do they have the business case to do it? What it would take for an ERP vendor to really win in PLM is an investment. Oracle invested in Agile and has spent quite a bit of effort on integration. SAP is spending a lot of time/effort/money on their new generation of PLM solutions. It is more a matter of will than capability. The best-of-breed PLM players have a huge head start, particularly for engineering-centric businesses as opposed to supply-chain-centric businesses. There have been a number of smaller players that have developed ERP-PLM hybrids for specific industries. Some of those have been very interesting. But I have not seen one gain significant market traction yet. My prediction? The lines will continue to blur over time, and the overlaps will get bigger. What do you think? Will there be a hybrid solution available in the next 5 years? Great discussion, thanks, Jim Eldad,
Thank you. Just to be clear, I am not saying that ERP companies can’t bring PLM to market. I believe they could. The question is are they motivated to build as deep and functional of a system as a best-of-breed vendor is? Do they have the business case to do it? What it would take for an ERP vendor to really win in PLM is an investment. Oracle invested in Agile and has spent quite a bit of effort on integration. SAP is spending a lot of time/effort/money on their new generation of PLM solutions. It is more a matter of will than capability. The best-of-breed PLM players have a huge head start, particularly for engineering-centric businesses as opposed to supply-chain-centric businesses.
There have been a number of smaller players that have developed ERP-PLM hybrids for specific industries. Some of those have been very interesting. But I have not seen one gain significant market traction yet.
My prediction? The lines will continue to blur over time, and the overlaps will get bigger. What do you think? Will there be a hybrid solution available in the next 5 years?
Great discussion, thanks,
Jim

]]> By: Jim Brown http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/comment-page-1/#comment-551 Jim Brown Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:05:28 +0000 http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/?p=628#comment-551 Jesse, I agree that PLM is the lifeblood of your business. But I also agree with the ERP camp that if you can't take orders, procure the right materials, plan your production, and get the product shipped/invoiced properly your business will suffer? I guess this is where you say the "heart" of your business is. So I guess we can't choose between our blood and our heart, so we need both. Where I get concerned is when I see people compromising one for the other. As you say, when you start integrating all that PLM does you recognize it is a huge enterprise system on its own. Quality is a hugely interesting topic to me. There, you have ERP, PLM, and Quality Management Systems (QMS) that can all play a role. I wrote about that in "Fight or Embrace Best-of-Breed in Manufacturing Systems" and there is a deeper link there on Quality Lifecycle Management (QLM) http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2009/best-of-breed-manufacturing-systems/. Some very interesting issues come up with quality (not to mention costing...) Thanks! Thanks for the feedback, Jim Jesse,
I agree that PLM is the lifeblood of your business. But I also agree with the ERP camp that if you can’t take orders, procure the right materials, plan your production, and get the product shipped/invoiced properly your business will suffer? I guess this is where you say the “heart” of your business is. So I guess we can’t choose between our blood and our heart, so we need both.
Where I get concerned is when I see people compromising one for the other. As you say, when you start integrating all that PLM does you recognize it is a huge enterprise system on its own.
Quality is a hugely interesting topic to me. There, you have ERP, PLM, and Quality Management Systems (QMS) that can all play a role. I wrote about that in “Fight or Embrace Best-of-Breed in Manufacturing Systems” and there is a deeper link there on Quality Lifecycle Management (QLM) http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2009/best-of-breed-manufacturing-systems/. Some very interesting issues come up with quality (not to mention costing…)
Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback,
Jim

]]> By: Jim Brown http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/mythbusting-erp-plm-integration/comment-page-1/#comment-550 Jim Brown Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:55:21 +0000 http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/?p=628#comment-550 Stephen, Thanks for your message. I agree that the devil is in the details with ERP-PLM integration. From my experience, there were two types of devils: - Technical challenges - Things like getting triggers to execute or ensuring recovery when the integration fails to execute properly can be tricky. Particularly on error recovery, I have seen a lot of people gloss over some of the tricky issues. Even if they decide to print an error log file and fix it manually, I hope they take the "oops" scenarios into account. They can tangle up your database if you aren't careful. - Functional challenges - Things like deciding which system is the master for part numbers or where different types of BOMs will be developed and stored take a lot of thought and planning. Also, deciding where to handle the overlap processes. You bring up the great example of engineering change. PLM is great at helping define and approve the ECO. But then there are decisions about when it should take effect that require inventory and order data from ERP. ERP planning needs to know how / when it will become effective - at inventory use up? on a specific data? on a specific serial number? So the answer for ECO is probably "both" - and depending on how comfortable you are pulling ERP data into PLM even the effectivity should be defined in PLM and executed in ERP. But I know that decision would be a 2 hour meeting (maybe more than one meeting) with lots of heated debate on both sides of the argument. Picking between the two types of issues, I feel that (today) the technical challenges are easier to resolve. Thanks again for your perspective. I guess the other way to look at it is that I research and write for a living these days and don't have to do any technical integration. Of course it seems easy to me, I am not the one that has to pull it off and make it work! Best, Jim Stephen,
Thanks for your message. I agree that the devil is in the details with ERP-PLM integration. From my experience, there were two types of devils:

- Technical challenges – Things like getting triggers to execute or ensuring recovery when the integration fails to execute properly can be tricky. Particularly on error recovery, I have seen a lot of people gloss over some of the tricky issues. Even if they decide to print an error log file and fix it manually, I hope they take the “oops” scenarios into account. They can tangle up your database if you aren’t careful.

- Functional challenges – Things like deciding which system is the master for part numbers or where different types of BOMs will be developed and stored take a lot of thought and planning. Also, deciding where to handle the overlap processes. You bring up the great example of engineering change. PLM is great at helping define and approve the ECO. But then there are decisions about when it should take effect that require inventory and order data from ERP. ERP planning needs to know how / when it will become effective – at inventory use up? on a specific data? on a specific serial number? So the answer for ECO is probably “both” – and depending on how comfortable you are pulling ERP data into PLM even the effectivity should be defined in PLM and executed in ERP. But I know that decision would be a 2 hour meeting (maybe more than one meeting) with lots of heated debate on both sides of the argument.
Picking between the two types of issues, I feel that (today) the technical challenges are easier to resolve.
Thanks again for your perspective. I guess the other way to look at it is that I research and write for a living these days and don’t have to do any technical integration. Of course it seems easy to me, I am not the one that has to pull it off and make it work!
Best,
Jim

]]>