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SAP – Too Much, or Too Little Credit for PLM Efforts?

March 03, 2010 By: Jim Brown Category: One-to-One

I had the chance to talk with … the PLM team at SAP recently to get an update on their plans and their progress to date. I have stayed in touch with them over the years, and have always been impressed by the opportunity they have to connect the business of manufacturing with the business of product development. As I reflected on the conversation, I struggled to understand why after all of the years of SAP getting too much credit for PLM, why they don’t seem to be getting as much credit for their recent efforts as I would expect. Today I hope to present both sides of the argument in the hopes to bring some clarity to the subject, and to start a conversation so we can all learn from each other.

Too Much Credit?

I have focused a lot of discussion on the complementary roles of ERP and PLM, and for many companies that translates to the roles of SAP and PLM. I have cautioned manufacturers in the past:

  • Not to assume that an ERP provider that “checks the box” for PLM actually has a suitable PLM suite
  • Don’t assume that any company offering both ERP and PLM have actually integrated them in a way that works for their particular business
  • PLM suites vary significantly between vendors, even among the “best-of-breed” vendors
  • PLM is not just another module of ERP, but a suite of solutions itself with some unique requirements

Those comments were typically in reaction to the “suite provider effect” where executives take a cursory look at a software requirement (such as PLM) and say “Doesn’t our ERP company have that? Let’s just use theirs.” While the ERP vendor’s solution deserves a review, if it doesn’t meet the business needs than the potential benefits of a single vendor and an integrated solution don’t add up to much. This conversation started way back in 2003 with my article Can ERP Speak PLM? in Technology Evaluation Centers (TEC) when I served as the analyst for the PLM Evaluation Center.

With all of those cautions in mind, my hope was that manufacturers that have an ERP (such as SAP) would do a thorough evaluation of their needs, and then select the solution (or solutions) that would work best for their business. In other words, they shouldn’t just take PLM from their ERP provider blindly.

Not Enough Credit?

With all of those cautions aside, the ERP provider should get a fair evaluation. There are benefits to integration and a single vendor solution. And SAP has clearly invested in PLM. I wrote about SAP’s PLM strategy and roadmap in the past on my Manufacturing Business Technology blog.* SAP has taken on a multi-year program to enhance their PLM offering, and they have made significant progress. Last year they introduced a new, web-focused interface that pulls together a product-centric dashboard for an item. The “PLM Object Navigator” as it was called offers information about a part from both ERP and PLM perspectives, including configurable sidebars. They have now extended that interface to the process PLM community, where SAP has a significant installed base.

But user interface isn’t all that SAP has focused on. They have integrated CAD management and visual communication capabilities to develop visual representations of the CAD models that all users can access. They have added functionality including labeling functionality for consumer packaged goods (CPG). They have also enhanced product compliance, collaboration, and requirements management.

SAP has remained consistent in their focus to support four PLM “value scenarios,” enabling business processes to help manufacturers in specific initiatives to establish “Product and Service Leadership“:

  • Consumer-Driven, Sustainable Innovation
  • Integrated Product Development
  • Continuous Product and Service Integration
  • Embedded Product Compliance

The names have changed slightly over time, but the needs SAP is trying to meet are well-planned, important, and have remained consistent. Clearly, SAP has a plan and has been hard at work to achieve it. 

The Confusion, and the Questions

When I talk to the SAP PLM team, I can feel the excitement and their sense of accomplishment. I hear about the progress on their plans and how they are fulfilling the needs of their customers. Yet from the manufacturers I speak with, I don’t feel the same enthusiasm. So here are my questions:

  • Am I talking to the wrong companies, or the wrong people?
  • Is it still too early?
  • Did the down economy last year stall SAP’s ability to get the word out?
  • Does SAP not have the ear of the product innovation, product development, and engineering staff?
  • Are manufacturers tired of hearing what is coming?
  • Is there just still more that needs to be done?
  • Are the best-of-breed vendors too far ahead? Or too entrenched?
  • Is there a slow revolution happening that I am just not in touch with?

So that’s what I hear from SAP, and my resulting confusion. I hope you found it interesting. What do you think? Can you help shed some light on my questions?

*Note: Sorry, no link to past posts on SAP PLM right now. Unfortunately the blog was taken offline by Reed Business when they closed the magazine. I hope to get that content back at some point to share with you.

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  • Anonymous

    Conrad you are correct. PLM cannot hold SAP out of this space http://blog.vuuch.com/?p=609. When/If SAP gets it right then the value to use a CAD based PLM solution versus a ERP based PLM solution will be minimal and as well SAP can push out the PLM vendor on price alone.

  • Anonymous

    So where is all of the information on early designs stored today? I would suggest that little is in PLM and more is in documents, hard drives, shared folders, etc. I assume you would agree.rnrnSo where should it be? Are you proposing ERP? Before I even know if I am going to really pursue the idea? Or Vuuch? But I don’t think your plan is to provide any data/document management capabilities, but to sit on top of those types of systems. SharePoint? Or maybe…PLM?rnrnIt seems to me that you need (at a minimum) some place to store/manage early design concepts, even if they are sketches and high-level conceptual or systems design. Why not PLM?rnrnPS – Finally got Disqus working for comments, threading is back, hope notifications, etc. work

  • Anonymous

    Hi,rnrnI think a couple of people were interested in links to more SAP PLM information. rnrnCheck out YouTube for example for a high-level demo.rnhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liK3nIHC6nwrnrnBesides that, you might want to visit the SAP PLM BPX Community page, there is an overview presentation on SAP PLM 7.0 posted there:rnhttp://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/bpx/plmrnrnRegards, Ulf.rnrn

  • Anonymous

    Just ran across an interesting discussion on “granularity” by Al Dean at Develop3D that further highlights some of the complexity of the PLM data models. http://develop3d.com/blog/2010/03/why-granularity-is-going-to-rock-your-future/ rnrnTo me, this really makes clear the difference in what you might want in your PLM system versus an execution-oriented system like ERP. Good stuff from Mr. Dean, worth a read.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. I will see if SAP has anything available to share that provides some insight. I have been briefed but I don’t have anything I can easily share. Stay tuned.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    Glad to hear of SAP’s continued efforts in this area. Sorry for the cliche, but “the proof’s in the pudding”. My previous investigations of SAP’s PLM offerings found them to be less comfortable in user experience than most, if not all other PLM , offerings, and requiring a 3rd party supported CAD integration. These two aspects were high in value to the organizations(s) pursuing PLM, so it really had no chance to ‘win the business’ even as an already-established ERP platform.rn I’m very interested to see their new offerings, and whether usability ( e.g. action ‘comfort’ , time to adoption ) and CAD integration support have improved.rn Much of the value of PLM capabilities ( Part-centric document management, product structure, CAD version control and collaboration, to name a few ) is to the less ‘transaction-centric’ people in a product organization. These people, if not all software users, are very oriented to a flexible, intuitive, and easily adopted user interface for a variety of regularly performed tasks. Such an interface hasn’t been readily present in the SAP implementations I’ve recently seen, but perhaps improvements are just not yet seen by me.rnrnIt would be great to get links, if available , to more information about the improvements you mention.

  • Anonymous

    Chris, rnThe answer to your first question is no.rnrnThe next question is much more interesting, so I started a new thread on that. See In Search of a Standard PLM Definition http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/standard-plm-definition/ rnrnGreat question

  • Anonymous

    Jim one of the points that seems to be surfacing is the notion of iterative in that PLM is developed to support an iterative process and ERP does not support iterative change. This seems confusing to me and maybe I am wrong or just confused, but isnu2019t managing multiple versions combined with configurations and effectivity dates a clear example of iteration?rnrnAfter going back and reading through this post I got thinking about how and why there is a lack of a common view. I expect this has to do with a clear u201cdefinitionu201d of PLM. Jim have you seen a clear and concise definition of the features of PLM? Iu2019m not talking about some marketing hype about product innovation. Iu2019m talking about something that clearly defines what it delivers and how. I know the u201cdefinitionu201d topics has been written about a lot but I expect by now someone has resolved this.rn

  • Anonymous

    Mike,nThank you for your comments. I do agree that for SAP (or any ERP company) to do PLM right, it will take more than software. They also have to instill that domain knowledge in their service people, their partners, and their full offering. That is why an acquisition sometimes makes entry into a new area like this easier. You get the people and the knowledge along with the software. Not to mention customers.nThanks,nJimnnPS – I am not sure if you have seen any of my thoughts on the roles of ERP and PLM, it sounds like we have some similar viewpoints. This post shares some of my thoughts and links to some other posts and papers on ERP and PLM http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2009/evolving-roles-erp-plm-manufacturing/

  • Anonymous

    During the late 80′s and early 90′s SAP succeeded in branding itself as the superior enabler of manufacturing and planning processes, to the point where they offered best practice processes, embedded in the software, for things like mrp, sfc, financials, etc. As you know, these processes are largely “transactional”. For many years they ignored the concept of the “creative” processes inherent in product development. Unfortunately, that branding still lingers in the cultures and minds of many companies. The creative process of design is not transactional. In my opinion, no matter how relevant the SAP products might be, it will take a while to educate the creative process participants and win them over. I could go on and on about my experiences in companies dealing with this. Education, not marketing, is the key.

  • Anonymous

    Conrad you are correct. PLM cannot hold SAP out of this space http://blog.vuuch.com/?p=609. When/If SAP gets it right then the value to use a CAD based PLM solution versus a ERP based PLM solution will be minimal and as well SAP can push out the PLM vendor on price alone.

  • Anonymous

    So where is all of the information on early designs stored today? I would suggest that little is in PLM and more is in documents, hard drives, shared folders, etc. I assume you would agree.rnrnSo where should it be? Are you proposing ERP? Before I even know if I am going to really pursue the idea? Or Vuuch? But I don’t think your plan is to provide any data/document management capabilities, but to sit on top of those types of systems. SharePoint? Or maybe…PLM?rnrnIt seems to me that you need (at a minimum) some place to store/manage early design concepts, even if they are sketches and high-level conceptual or systems design. Why not PLM?rnrnPS – Finally got Disqus working for comments, threading is back, hope notifications, etc. work

  • Anonymous

    Hi,rnrnI think a couple of people were interested in links to more SAP PLM information. rnrnCheck out YouTube for example for a high-level demo.rnhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liK3nIHC6nwrnrnBesides that, you might want to visit the SAP PLM BPX Community page, there is an overview presentation on SAP PLM 7.0 posted there:rnhttp://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/bpx/plmrnrnRegards, Ulf.rnrn

  • Anonymous

    Just ran across an interesting discussion on “granularity” by Al Dean at Develop3D that further highlights some of the complexity of the PLM data models. http://develop3d.com/blog/2010/03/why-granularity-is-going-to-rock-your-future/ rnrnTo me, this really makes clear the difference in what you might want in your PLM system versus an execution-oriented system like ERP. Good stuff from Mr. Dean, worth a read.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. I will see if SAP has anything available to share that provides some insight. I have been briefed but I don’t have anything I can easily share. Stay tuned.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    Glad to hear of SAP’s continued efforts in this area. Sorry for the cliche, but “the proof’s in the pudding”. My previous investigations of SAP’s PLM offerings found them to be less comfortable in user experience than most, if not all other PLM , offerings, and requiring a 3rd party supported CAD integration. These two aspects were high in value to the organizations(s) pursuing PLM, so it really had no chance to ‘win the business’ even as an already-established ERP platform.rn I’m very interested to see their new offerings, and whether usability ( e.g. action ‘comfort’ , time to adoption ) and CAD integration support have improved.rn Much of the value of PLM capabilities ( Part-centric document management, product structure, CAD version control and collaboration, to name a few ) is to the less ‘transaction-centric’ people in a product organization. These people, if not all software users, are very oriented to a flexible, intuitive, and easily adopted user interface for a variety of regularly performed tasks. Such an interface hasn’t been readily present in the SAP implementations I’ve recently seen, but perhaps improvements are just not yet seen by me.rnrnIt would be great to get links, if available , to more information about the improvements you mention.

  • Anonymous

    Chris, rnThe answer to your first question is no.rnrnThe next question is much more interesting, so I started a new thread on that. See In Search of a Standard PLM Definition http://tech-clarity.com/clarityonplm/2010/standard-plm-definition/ rnrnGreat question

  • Anonymous

    Jim one of the points that seems to be surfacing is the notion of iterative in that PLM is developed to support an iterative process and ERP does not support iterative change. This seems confusing to me and maybe I am wrong or just confused, but isnu2019t managing multiple versions combined with configurations and effectivity dates a clear example of iteration?rnrnAfter going back and reading through this post I got thinking about how and why there is a lack of a common view. I expect this has to do with a clear u201cdefinitionu201d of PLM. Jim have you seen a clear and concise definition of the features of PLM? Iu2019m not talking about some marketing hype about product innovation. Iu2019m talking about something that clearly defines what it delivers and how. I know the u201cdefinitionu201d topics has been written about a lot but I expect by now someone has resolved this.rn


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